In Conversation with Kate Schumacher: Part Two
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Danikka: Hey there, welcome to the Snailed It podcast with Danikka and Erin, brought to you by Authors Own Publishing. Hi everyone, welcome back to the Snailed It podcast with Erin and Danikka. This is part two of our in-conversation episode with Kate Schumacher. We're so excited that you came back for part two, and we hope you enjoy the rest of the episode.
Kate: What were we talking about?
Danikka: Well, it was like two tangents.
Erin: Yeah
Kate: Yeah I know.
Danikka: It starts off with a tangent, but then we're ending with a tangent.
Kate: That's like my books. It changes the whole world.
Erin: It changes the whole world of tangents.
Kate: Yes.
Danikka: I do have one last question, because this is something that I think you posted a reel, not that you'd made, but you'd posted a reel to your stories the other day, Erin, about timelines and not being able to keep them straight.
Erin: Oh yeah.
Danikka: I wondered how you do that, Kate, especially with connecting the two universes and keeping timelines and everything straight. Does that just exist in your head, or did you write it down somewhere?
Kate: No, I write it down. I write a timeline. I write a timeline, like an actual timeline. Yeah, where I know what's going on when. Sometimes I muddle it up, as we talked about last night, when you were just sort of starting to read the second book. Maybe I should put that there. And it is hard when you've got multiple points of view and things that are kind of happening at the same time. Like actually, what needs to come first? And does it matter? I don't know. But yeah, I think sometimes for story flow, you've got to choose who gets to talk first, but especially when you've got characters in different places and everything's happening at the same time in several different places. That can be a little bit challenging. But no, I write a timeline as such.
Erin: Yeah,
Kate: Because if I don't, I lose track of what's going on. And that's why I draw maps. And I write myself a history for my world. I write myself the mythology. I write myself descriptions of each country within my world. I do all the world building stuff. And actually, those videos did all right on TikTok, my world building series. There's an acronym for that, G.R.A.P.E.S. And that's Geography, Religion, Achievements, Politics, Economics, and Social Structure. Like all of those things that you need to think about and all those things that work within a world that you need. Like you need those details. Like if you don't know who governs your world or who holds power in your world, if you don't know the social structure of your world, whether you're... And for fantasy, it's relatively simple, I think, because most fantasies that I've read have that classic feudal system or the feudal pyramid. So it's easy to go, okay, at the top of the pyramid, there's these people, there's like the king or whatever. And it just trickles down from there. But if you don't know those things, you can't write your story. Like what happens, the characters and the plot, that all comes next. But you've got to have that world building and that background. Or you're going to... I think that's where you end up with inconsistencies because it's like, oh, we don't have any... We don't actually have money in this world. And the next minute someone's handing over money. Well, where did that money come from? And me, as a reader, I would be going, where did that money come from? I'd be wanting, why did I have money suddenly when they didn't have money back there? And I don't know, I think maybe that doesn't matter to some people when they read, but that matters to me. And that's the sort of, I want to know what's going on in the background as well. And that's the writing, you have to know it.
Erin: There the things that kind of take you out of it, don't they? The things that take you out of the story
Kate: Yeah. On page 22, it's a barter system. On page 50, we've got money. Where'd that come from? Just as one example. So I think when you ask the writer, you need to have that planned. Like even if you don't end up using some of that information, like it's not in there explicitly. I think if you know those things and you have that really strong basis and a lot of the... Like I'll often, I'll get the story idea, the characters will pop up, I'll write a bit and then I'll go, okay, how does this world actually work? And then I'll go and work it out. And then I'll keep writing the story generally. Because once you've got the basis of the world, particularly the political and the social structure stuff, because that is, well, that is how the world works in reality. And yeah, fantasy is fantasy, but you still, it still has to make sense. And you still have to have consistency within your own world. So I do all that. I do my world building stuff and then I can keep writing. And the world building will continue as I'm writing because we'll start the story in one little place and then like with the Grail cycle, I've got my characters in one place to begin with. And they don't really, two of them don't really know much about the outside world. So then as they move out of that place, the world expands for them and then the world expands for the reader a bit as well. So I needed to know what things, what this town looked like, what were things like there? What about this place? And what about this place? And what about this place? And then because I've got pirates and ships, I could probably sail a ship now because I did a stupid amount of research. I did a stupid, I could, I have, I know what all these parts on a ship are now. But then there was one part, I think, I think I'll say it to you Danikka, that's a really weird detail. Do I need that detail there? And it's like, I think we decided, yeah, we'll leave that there.
Danikka: I think it was the name of one of the guns. And then it was because we decided to keep it so that then if there was a fight scene later.
Kate: It was ammunition. So we've got... It was ammunition. Yeah. Pirate ships use different types of ammunition. You've got things like chain shot, ball shot, then you've got the air cannon balls and then you had what they call carcass ammunition. So, yeah.
Erin: Carcass ammunition.
Kate: Yeah. That's nasty stuff.
Erin: It sounds it.
Kate: So, yeah. You know, I'm, I'm, so I'm researching and part of that research included watching black sails because that's quite accurate. If you want to know about pirates, don't watch Pirates of the Caribbean because that is not accurate. So, I watched black sails.
Danikka: I wonder why.
Kate: Because accuracy, accuracy is important. I'm like, okay, it's a fantasy. It's my world. I can do what I want. But I'm like, but what's that thing on a ship called? How does that actually work? Because, yeah, I wanted to be accurate.
Danikka: And you can't look everything up.
Erin: No.
Kate: No, no, no. So, I was deep in the golden age of piracy for a while and then I found this amazing, I was just listening to, what was I listening to? Radio National driving home from somewhere one day and they were doing this incredible history podcast on pirates. I'm like, I'm just going to pull over and get my phone and make notes and make notes. And I missed the start. So, I went home and found it and listened to it again. But that was really, really interesting. And, but, you know, even things like what they wore, what the different parts of the ship are called. The language, the jargon and the slang of pirates isn't necessarily what we see in the movies. Walking the plank. No one actually did that, I don't think.
Erin: Really?
Kate: Yeah. So, it was really interesting. No, that's a movie thing.
Erin: I've been lied to, my entire life.
Kate: We have been lied to. We have been lied to, right? We have been. And that's why I like Black Sails because it is quite accurate. It's quite accurate. That history, the history of that whole area was quite interesting. But yeah, it's, and that, if you don't know, that's actually a prequel, was sort of created as a prequel to Treasure Island, which is what's also very interesting about it. Because that whole series ends with the treasure that they're looking for in Treasure Island. So, that was really cool. And in that, that was interesting because they used sort of real life pirates from the day and then had a couple of their own creations. But it was just very, very, very well done. So, I quite enjoyed watching that for research purposes only. But no, it was really good.
Danikka: Sure.
Kate: I did a lot, a lot of, a lot of research into pirates. I've got half a notebook full of pirates and ships.
Erin: Pirate stuff.
Kate: And stuff. Pirate stuff, yeah.
Danikka: Does it make you want to write more pirate things after the grass cycle or do you think you're?
Kate: I don't know. I don't know. Maybe not. I don't know. And see, how pirates ended up in there in the first place, because, I mean, Arthurian legend is, I mean, if King Arthur existed, they think that he would have been in Cornwall. And Cornwall has a history of piracy, which was quite interesting to research. So, that's where I thought, oh, pirates. Because I felt like writing about pirates. I don't know why, but I did. And, but I wanted to write my.
Danikka: Probably because you'd been watching Black Sails.
Kate: Yeah, probably. No, I think I was writing before I watched Black Sails. But yeah, and then I thought, oh, okay, hang on. Cornwall's on the seaside. There were pirates. I'm going to go and research that. So, I did. And I'm like, okay, this will work. Because yes, it's fantasy. I can do what I want. But I still wanted some accuracy in there, I suppose. And it's not like the book's not set in Cornwall. It's a secondary world. But that's definitely been the influence behind there. And I've never been there. So, I had to do a lot of research into that. As well. So, I like. I don't mind the research. I find it interesting.
Danikka: I said to you when I was reading parts of it. I was like, this sounds like this town in Cornwall. Because my mum used to live in Devon. So, I spent a lot of time in Cornwall when I was in England. Because Cornwall is like just there. And I didn't really like. Like, I liked Devon. It was okay. But it was mostly green rolling hills and that kind of thing. But Cornwall's a lot more wild. A lot more rocky kind of coastlines. And much less populated. Yeah. It was very clear in the book. If you've been to Cornwall, you'll be able to get that sense. So, for someone who hasn't been there, you've got the sense there. Yeah.
Kate: I did a lot of research. And that research is not necessarily trawling through pages and pages of reading. Or academic articles. It can just be visual stuff. Like, I want pictures of a village in Cornwall. Right. How do I describe that? What words do I have to use to describe that? So, it can be that sort of research as well. Oh, there's my dog. The neighbours are doing... I think they're only...
Dnaikka: When we talk about planning fantasy and doing world building. And stuff like that. I think people just get so overwhelmed with the idea of doing research. Doing the world building. And things like that. And they think of it as like this big task. But it's really...
Kate: It's so important.
Danikka: It's as simple as creating a Pinterest board for your book. Or...
Kate: Yeah, that's a starting point. That's a definite starting point. Yeah.
Danikka: Like, naming the king. Or knowing how many places there are.
Kate: Oh, names, names, names. Everyone just needs to go look at Behind The Name. Behind The Name. Oh, it's the best website. It's changed my life.
Erin: Behind The Name.
Kate: Because you've got...
Erin: Writing it down.
Kate: Behind The Name. You've got first names. And they have a surname section. So, because names are important. You're not going to call your villain Bob, are you? You're going to look for something a little bit juicier than that. So, I will sometimes name my characters. And then change their name. Because I'm like, no, this person is not a that. So, I get on Behind The Name. And I want names that mean such and such. But then I look at them regionally as well. So, if I'm setting something in a Cornwall style secondary world. Well, I kind of want names from that place. Names that are more... Especially for people who are just like in my little village. My little town. I want names that would have been... That would suit that particular geographic location as well. So, there's all of that as well. I like names. Names are important. You're not going to call your bad guy Bob. Or Kevin. Maybe Kevin. I don't know. But you're not going to call him Bob.
Danikka: Kevin!
Kate: Kev.
Erin: Kev. Gary.
Kate: Gazza
Danikka: And that's another cool way to add Easter eggs too. Because it's like in my currently shelved... That's like in my currently shelved work in progress. The main character's name. So, I've got two that I'm working on. But the one that I'm not working on at the moment. Her name means lion. And her parents call her their little lion. And then she becomes like the lion of her people. That's there from the beginning. And it's something that if people looked up her name they would realise. And it connects it all. Which is what a lot of fantasy readers especially will do. Is they'll check things like that. But then also when you think about naming people wrong. And you think about the language that you're using as well. That adds a lot to how it feels. And so like I was reading... Because I've been on a bit of a Kindle Unlimited binge. And I've been reading my fantasy style romances and things. And all of the narration and everything in this fun book I was reading was very modern. But then when the characters spoke it was like in this weird hybrid Shakespearean.
Erin: Oh.
Kate: Oh right.
Danikka: Mustest, mayhest and all of that stuff. So it was very jarring because the internal monologue is very modern. And then suddenly we've got like this Shakespearean style talk. And so that was very jarring.
Erin: That's confusing.
Kate: And that's another thing. Like anachronisms drive me insane. Because you read a book and the setting's been established. And okay we're in a high fantasy. And you know if someone calls somebody dude. Like no. It just doesn't work. I don't. I've never come across that. But as an example. Like it just doesn't. It doesn't work. It doesn't. Pinterest is actually really good for that. There's quite a lot of really good little reels and posts about names. Like if you're hunting for names. I was just... I posted something on... Well I don't even know where it is. On Instagram.
ErinL: That was the thing about Fourth Wing actually it read very contemporary I thought.
Kate: Yeah right.
Danikka: Yeah It was like a lot of people with like period pieces lately have been like. They've got a face like they know what the iPhone is. Like with the new Persuasion and the latest Bridgerton. I think it was Queen Charlotte.
Erin: Queen Charlotte was so good.
Danikka: Like their faces are modern faces. Oh Queen Charlotte was so good.
Kate: Yeah I haven't seen that. I have not seen that. It's on my list. So yeah I just found my Instagram post where I talked about names. Because yeah it's Shakespeare who said what's in a name? But he also said that which we call a rose by any other name would smell as sweet. So a lot of the times it comes down to not only the name itself. But I think you said it just before Danikka. But the meaning that's attached to that name. So if you're going to call your character Adolf. There's a lot of meaning behind that.
Danikka: There's a lot of connotations behind that.
Kate: There's connotations attached to that. So yeah I do spend a lot of time with my names. And in my Instagram post I talked about like Thalion's name. And where that came from. Thalion's actually a name I borrowed from Tolkien. He's not like a main character in Tolkien. But you know the meanings there. Strong, dauntless, steadfast. And then the surname Leova is Old Norse. And I changed the spelling a little bit. But part of that name actually means wolf. And the other part means shield. So shield wolf. Which I think just works.
Danikka: That's awesome.
Kate: For the character. So you know when you're going to give people a name. Make it matter I suppose. And relevant.
Danikka: If we put this into a contemporary romance setting. If we want someone to know that someone is in a love interest. Call them Chad. Trent..
Kate: Poor old Trent. Chad. Poor old Trent.
Danikka: Chad. Or Brett or something like that. Or Trent.
Kate: Yeah Trent. Oh I've known a few Trents. Yeah. Okay not personally but I've known a few Trents. But yeah it's interesting. So I guess there's all these tiny little details. And these are all things that are in my head. As I'm sort of planning and conceptualizing. It's like what am I going to call that person? The names in the grail cycle. Like Jennifer. Jennifer is my Guinevere. And Jennifer is the English equivalent of Guinevere. Because Guinevere is Welsh. And it's Jennifer essentially. So you know things like that. I think I've changed most of the names from the myth. So the characters are there. But just not instantly recognizable. I've changed most of the names except for Arthur. And his full name will come into being soon.
Erin: Oh.
Kate: Yeah. I haven't given him the last name that everybody associates with him yet. So I'm still sort of playing with the idea and how I'm going to do that. But yeah. So there's a lot behind this book I suppose. Pirates, Cornwall, Arthurian legend. Because there are so many versions of the myth. So, so many of them. And so many different interpretations of the characters as well. Morgan Le Fay, for example, initially was not the villain. She was a priestess of Avalon. She was a healer. She healed Arthur when he was wounded and went to Avalon at the end. But she was not the bad guy. That didn't happen until later. And the myths had already been around for a long time. So it's interesting. And she's always been a character who interests me in all of her different interpretations. And I always think through whatever interpretation of the myth. Like whenever they make a new movie or there's a TV show or something. And I've really, really enjoyed all of them. But Guinevere always gets a raw deal. And so does Arthur a little bit. It's like he's got his thing that he's going to do and that's kind of it. I often feel there's not a lot of focus given to who he is, really. So, I don't know. It's been fun.
Danikka: There's always so much focus on Lancelot.
Kate: Yes, but even he gets the wrong end of the stick. Like I do not like most interpretations of Lancelot, to be honest. But again, he's a new character to the myths. Like he wasn't there initially either.
Danikka: Originally, yeah.
Kate: No, no. So, who's responsible for all of that? Geoffrey of Monmouth. He's responsible for that. History of the Kings of Britain, which is not a history at all, really. It's mythology.
Erin: History with creative licence.
Kate: It's historical fiction, I suppose we could call it. But he was considered almost an authority on the subject. Because I guess not many people were writing in that way. There was a lot of poetry. Tennyson's written a lot of poetry. Who else wrote a lot of stuff? Hang on, where's my list? Thomas Mallory. He's the other one. Yeah, Geoffrey. But then, you know, I don't know whether you've read The Myths of Avalon, like Marion Zimmer Bradley, but that is absolutely amazing. And that focuses on Morgan Le Fay or Morgaine. And it is just amazing. Absolutely incredible. Because that was the first book that I had read that actually, or the first anything I'd ever seen that actually looked at her character a little bit more and told her story a little differently. So, yeah, I enjoyed that book. I need to get another copy of that. That was really, really good. And there's a movie version of it too, which was pretty well done. When did they make that? I don't know, a million years ago. But yeah, so I wanted to just play with these characters a little bit because I'd be watching a movie or a TV version of it and going, yeah, nah, I don't really like that. So now I get to do all my own things, which is good.
Danikka: And that's the joy of being a writer.
Erin: I'm going to do that better.
Kate: Yeah, well, I'm going to do it my own way, how I'd like to do it.
Danikka: But yeah, I think this has been really interesting, though, because you can see, you know, some of the techniques that you use, even though you write completely differently to Erin, are similar to how Erin works. And like, there's some things that I do that you do as well. Like, I think it's a good lesson for our listeners is if they're trying to plan something or trying to write and they're getting into things, they can just listen to what other people do and then just try things and pick what works for them. If you're planning a series, you might plan it completely differently to how Kate does it. You might want to have that strict outline and stick to it because that's how you keep your inspiration going. Or you might prefer the freedom of knowing that you're not locked into the outline. Like, I think you can kind of go any way you want with it. And if you're just starting out writing, it's OK if you don't have it figured all out yet. You've been writing for a long time, both of you. Like, you've got things that you've written that haven't been published yet. And, you know, ideas that have been sitting there for years before you've written anything down consistently. So, I think
Kate: I was going to say, one of the series that I read that's probably had the most influence on me as a writer is by an Australian author by Kate Forsyth. I don't know whether you've read any of her stuff.
Danikka: I haven't read it, but I've heard of her.
Kate: It's amazing. So, The Witches of, oh God, I can't pronounce Scottish Gaelic. The Witches of Eilanan. I think it's a six-book series set in a secondary world, a huge, big basis in Scottish myth and folklore. And it is absolutely incredible. There are things, and I'm thinking about how she must have written this. I think she must have, she had to have had a plan or she just all fell together really easily. Because there's things that happen in the first couple of books, I said six books, things that happen in the first couple that you get to the end and you go, oh my God, that was that thing. That was that thing. And the writing is beautiful. It's this gorgeous poetic prose. And the characters are all amazing. And talking about multiple point of view, one of the books, I think there are 16 point of view characters in one book.
Danikka: That's awesome.
Kate: That's awesome. And some of them are only for little bits. But being able to see the world, and it's a huge world, and this amazing villain, it's incredible. And morally grey characters, it's just not morally grey like people say it's morally grey now. These people are morally grey characters. You don't know what they're up to. Who are they actually? But it's an incredible book and incredible series. And thinking about it now as a writer, I'm sort of thinking how she must have had some epic plan on the wall or it all just fell together. But I think looking at the level of detail that it must have been planned to a point. But even that book where there's 16 points of view, and it's third person. So at no point in that 16 point of view book did I go, hang on, who am I now? Because it's just written so well that you don't lose it. But all those points of view are incredibly necessary because it is such a detailed, rich world. It's a huge world. And this would make a good Netflix series. Netflix.
Erin: Netflix. If you're listening.
Kate: You need to make this. If you're listening. Right. I don't know. And then she wrote a companion series to it as well. And I don't think she's writing fantasy anymore. I think she's writing sort of contemporary historical romance, fiction-y type stuff at the moment. But she's a beautiful writer. But this series is just amazing. It was I think first books came out late 90s and the series wrapped up in the early 2000s. And it used to be my I brought one book a week because it was all out by the time I found them. And it was my reward to myself after getting paid for surviving another week working in the pub. Right. I'm paid. I'm going straight down the road to the bookshop, and I'm buying the next book. And then I'd read that. And then the next one. But I just go back to them over and over again, just to even read little parts of it just for the language, but also for the fluency for the transition between one scene to another, like how she does those things is really, really inspirational. And it is epic fantasy, but it has a really strong romance element. But without the romance, the story would not work. Because again, it's those relationships and those connections between the characters that drive the plot. So it's a character driven plot. And I mean, in reality, we're influenced by the people that we are involved with and the people who we are in relationships with, whether they're good ones or bad ones. So I think you can still have romance in an epic fantasy that's not the thing that drives the plot, but it's part of the thing that drives the plot. Because if I think about if I took the romance out of any of my books, well, there's half my plot. Because the things my characters do, they do because of their relationships with other people. So if you took that out, well, there's half the story's gone. Some major plot points are gone and they're not actually going to happen. But yeah, that is a really, really good series. Very, very, very good. The world is just phenomenal. And the other one that I enjoyed for world building and epicness is The Bitterbynde trilogy, Cecilia Dart-Thornton, another Australian fantasy author. And that, again, has a strong base in Celtic myth and folklore. And it's just beautiful, absolutely beautiful. Her prose is just lovely. I really enjoy reading those. But again
Danikka: What’s her name again? Cecilia
Kate: Cecilia Dart-Thornton, she's an Aussie. She's got another series after that that I read as well. But that one I particularly love, like her vocabulary used. I've read interesting reviews where people go, oh, there's too many big words. Well, get a dictionary. I don't know. Just enjoy it.
Danikka: Something Kindle Unlimited has not helped with, I think. It's good because we want people to be reading. But also, I think because it's not as edited, like the same book I was talking about with the language disconnect was riddle with typos and misspelling and wrong words and it’s those kind of books that give self publishing a bad name and fantasy in a lot of ways a bad name because so many of them are just mass fantasy.
Kate: I had a mini Facebook argument with someone about this the other day. Like don’t paint us all with the same brush please, but, look I– vocabulary, what vocabulary. Because people aren’t reading. They’re not reading as much as they used to read. If you’re a writer and you haven’t done a lot of reading especially within your genre you probably need to do some reading, do some reading and sometimes you don’t need to
Danikka: that’s what I said to someone the other day
Kate: It’s really important. It’s really important. I mean read within your genre, read outside your genre as well, but you know, I know, I’ll go back to classic literature, right. I have read the literary canon because I had to but because I had to as well and they’re not the sort of books that I write, I’m not writing anything, well if I was ever going to write in Victorian era England I’d go and read some Charles Dickens. But so it’s not even for the characters and the settings it’s for the use of language. It is just absolutely amazing. I have a love hate relationship with Wuthering Heights, right, I think it’s just dreadful and I want them all to die, which they do but they are hateful, hateful people. But why are they hateful people because she has written them so well. And she has created this incredible atmosphere and this incredible suffocation to the story and they’re hateful, but they’re hateful because she’s written them to be hateful, so, or you read Shakespeare’s a good one, or Jane Eyre, half those people annoy me. But again, the writing is beautiful, the descriptive writing is beautiful. And then you read something like Frankenstein
Danikka: But Jane is really annoying
Kate: Oh Jane drives me insane! It’s like yeah ok god almighty, but she’s meant to drives us a bit mad I think. But then you can do the flipside and go and read Jane Austen and go and read Pride and Prejudice or Emma and see how somebody satirises and entire society and cultural expectations. And that’s what a lot of people don’t realise about Pride and Prejudice, it’s a satire. It’s not meant to be taken seriously, she’s poking fun at this world and she does it so well. But again
Danikka: Well Mansfield Park is like Jane Eyre in that sense.
Kate: Yes, yes, that’s her sort of a bit more classic element to it I guess. Northanger Abbey as well.
Danikka: I love Northanger Abbey
Kate: It’s lovely, I saw a very weird movie version of it as a teenager. It was very good. But you know Frankenstein, you want to see how someone writes about the human condition go and read Frankenstein because that is incredible but again it’s just for the language and you see people go oh there’s too many big words I can’t read it– get a dictionary. Think of it as I’m going to expand my vocabulary and learn some new words. Particularly if you are a writer because you can then use those words. Not all the time, if you don’t to, but you can see how somebody does
Erin: But they’re there
Kate: They’re there
Danikka: And there might be modern equivalents that maybe weren’t available to Mary Shelley but you can use
Kate: That’s right. You know there’s three-hundred and something thousand words in the English language that’s a lot of words to play with but again you know it’s context as well and finding the right word to go with the world you’re creating the right word with the right connotations whether they’re positive or negative and the right word to fit within your sentence and how you’re actually using that word. You know, there’s so much stuff, so much stuff. But you know that’s fine detail stuff, but you can write, you’re writing will be better for reading what other people of done and how and think about how they’ve actually done it, looking at how is that sentence put together, how are they using language how are they setting the scene how are they showing not telling. I did a TikTok yesterday on pathetic fallacy which is my favourite language technique because you know you want to show how a character is feeling then use some pathetic fallacy. So if you were the heroine in a Jane Austen– no she was too nice. If you were the heroine in an Emily Bronte novel and you were going through all your inner turmoil, you would go for a walk on the moors and it would be raining and windy and the sky would be all dark and bruised and you’re thinking about all this stuff and wind is pulling at your cloak and it rips your hat off and then it rains and you get pneumonia and you die. But, that weather, that weather is reflecting is the internal monologue of the character. So you don’t need to be all she was feeling depressed because show it with what’s going on. Or someone’s brooding, it’s a romance novel and we’re brooding because the romance isn’t going so well and we’re staring out the window and it’s raining, it has to be raining. It can’t be sunshine, it has to be raining. So pathetic fallacy is that sort of thing, people use it and people know it but they don’t actually know what it’s called
Erin: I didn’t know that’s what it was called
Kate: So yeah it’s personification, personification but it’s associated with the emotions only and the weather, and the natural world, whereas personification is just human attributes to any non-human thing. But yeah pathetic fallacy is the world–the natural world and emotions. So yeah, it’s fun, I like it, and that’s one of those things that the romantic writers used and used really really well whether they were poets or novelists. So it’s a good one. I like it.
Danikka: That might have to be another podcast episode that we do we’ll get you on and you’ll tell us all of the things that are used in books that we don’t know what they’re called.
Erin: Yes please
Kate: Ok
Erin: Well that was the, from the retreat there was a thing when you gave us the thing and it was the onomatopoeia is that what it was. I never knew that’s what that was called, but it’s also just a fun word to say also
Kate: Onomatopoeia is interesting, it’s a really interesting one because we learn how to use that in primary school, bang crash smash, it’s comic book stuff as well it’s the words in the little bubbles and stars in a comic, but when you use it in writing in a sentence it’s a sound device. So it’s a technique that creates that sound because you know it’s part of you sensory landscape, so that’s a good one. Onomatopoeia is a good one and it’s not as simple as bang or crash like words like moan, groan, screech. They’re all onomatopoeia words as well as verbs so there’s lots of fun things you can do with that, it’s a good atmosphere building one as well. So yeah, alright we’ll do another one with all that stuff. I can talk about that for ages
Danikka: I think I am going to wrap up because we’ve been going for quite a while now, I think, I love podcasting because it gives me so many ideas for future episodes, so we’ll never run out of ideas. As always if you guys have any questions for Kate for Erin for me, please send them to any of our DMs all of our socials will be linked with the podcast as well and yeah please reach out we love talking to people and if you want to grab latest book, book 1 in The Grail Cycle The Call of the Sea, you can get that in all of the usual places, Amazon all those things. So thank you so much for listening in and for being on the podcast with us Kate it’s been amazing and I’m sure we’ll have you back soon. Thanks guys.
Kate: Alright bye
Erin: Bye
Danikka: Thank you for listening to The Snailed It podcast with Danikka and Erin brought to you by Authors Own Publishing, the home of indie publishing. Don’t forget to subscribe wherever you listen to you podcast and follow us on Instagram at authors own publishing. Music brought to you by Mikkel with more details in the show notes.
Episode Description
Welcome back to Part Two of chatting with fantasy author Kate Schumacher.
You can shop for Kate's books online here or here
Brought to you by: Authors Own Publishing, Danikka Taylor, and Erin Thomson.
Danikka’s Details:
Website: www.authorsownpublishing.com
Instagram: @danikkataylor or @authorsownpublishing
Erin’s Details:
Website: www.erinthomsonauthor.com
Instagram: @authorerinthomson
Intro & Outro Music by Mikel & GameChops. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are solely those of the individuals involved and do not necessarily reflect the views of Authors Own Publishing. Thanks for Listening!
