Episode 5: Our Writing Process Part 2
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Danikka: Hey there, welcome to the Snailed It Podcast with Danikka and Erin, brought to you by Authors Own Publishing.
Erin: Hi everyone, welcome back to the Snailed It Podcast with Danikka and Erin. Today we are continuing our writing process chat and we'll maybe hopefully get a little further than we did last time.
Danikka: Yeah, we went on a bit of a tangent last time but I think that's, you know, if you're a regular listener to the Podcast, you're used to that by now.
Erin: Yeah, it's true.
Danikka: It's why you come, to be honest.
Erin: Yeah.
Danikka: We thought it'd be fun because we were talking about like that initial finding inspiration and sitting down to write kind of process in the last one, we thought it'd be cool to talk about finishing your first draft and that kind of revision process that happens before you work with an editor.
Erin: Yeah.
Danikka: So all of that self-revising that you're doing, potentially working with critique partners.
Erin: Yeah.
Danikka: So and then this is where I confess that the only first draft I've ever finished, I was 13. I haven't finished the first draft since then.
Erin: No — how long was it?
Danikka: It was, I think it was for a novella competition, so I think it was 27,000 words.
Erin: I don’t reckon I would have been able to write 20,000 words at 13. That’s impressive.
Danikka: Yeah, 13 to 15 was peak of my writing career before the demons got in my head and I stopped writing. So yeah, but it was shortlisted for a national prize. I don't know if I've still, I don't know if I've got the draft anymore. I'll just see if I can find it. I heard my characters were speaking in Shakespearean English and all this other bullshit.
Erin: I totally want to go on a tangent and start finding out about what this is, but that's not the purpose of this Podcast, Erin. Focus.
Danikka: No, that's okay. Maybe we'll do an episode about like things that we wrote, like the first thing that we wrote one day. That would be kind of cool. Yeah. So we'll do that for another episode.
Erin: Put a pin in it.
Danikka: So all of that to say is I'm relying very much on Erin's expertise for this Podcast because as an adult, I haven't finished the first draft. I'm halfway there. I'm halfway there with Project November, but yeah.
Erin: What has stopped you from finishing your first draft, like finishing the draft since then?
Danikka: Well, I think the answer is actually more what stopped me writing, which is a whole psychological discussion because I legit ...
Erin: That is also for another day.
Danikka: That is also for another Podcast, but let's just say something very mean was said to me by someone close to me when I was 15 and I literally stopped writing from there.
Erin: Okay. But now you are. You're back at it.
Danikka: Which is good news. Yes. Yes.
Erin: Exactly. So with the process then of this one, has it been like quite freeing then, starting to write again?
Danikka: So this isn't what I started writing when I started writing again. So I actually started writing a different story that actually I found a short story that I wrote for an assignment in high school that I was intrigued by. And I remember the picture that we had to take a picture and write a story based in that picture.
And so it was only, I think that one was only like 900 words or something like that. It was like a high school length assignment. And I was like, oh, I don't like how it ends now. Like it was very, dare I say, like stereotypical caricatures of like races and things like that because it was like a Middle Eastern setting.
Erin: Yeah. And you were in high school. High school, regional Queensland.
Danikka: So very, very, very...
Erin: You were doing your best. I was doing my best.
Danikka: I mean, I was one of the most liberal students in my school, like liberal as in what we mean in Australia as in like free thinking, not conservative. And so, yeah, I was definitely doing my best. But anyway, I read that story and I was like, oh, I wonder what actually happened to these characters.
And like I wrote it, I wrote about 20-ish thousand words and this was during COVID. So during COVID when we didn't have much else to do, we were very isolated, like away from everyone, which was good. I kind of picked it up and I was going through my old computer for some reason.
But anyway, whatever reason it was, I found that story and I just started writing one afternoon because there was not much else to do and kind of played with those characters. And then over the next couple of days, I wrote quite a few thousand words. I ended up in about 19,000 for that initial kind of spurt. And then I kind of changed my mind a bit. So then I restarted it a few times. And then I think you read the later version of it.
Erin: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. That one.
Danikka: Yeah. So I can't remember what I call it. I think it was something about the dawn. Anyway, it's in my computer somewhere.
Erin: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, I remember.
Danikka: So that is still in the back-burner. So it went from that to me having almost like a trilogy planned out from it. And then that was kind of what got me started writing.
But then, yeah, you know, when stuff happens and your brain gets loud again. And I mean, we need to name my inner mean girl because we named yours Barb.
Erin: She's Barbara — or occasionally Lesley.
Danikka: Mine doesn't have ... I often call it Vanessa because I was like, oh, Vanessa.
Erin: That's a good one. Yeah, yeah.
Danikka: Because I call mine Vanessa or Nessie because that was the name of the girl who hated me in high school.
Erin: Oh, that almost was a little too close. A little too close. Yeah.
Danikka: I don't know. I've never come up with a name for mine before. I like Barb or Lesley for yours. It depends on the tone she's got for the day.
Erin: Yeah, exactly. Yeah. And this stems from in Five Dates Between Friends. If you have not read it, Chase has a mean girl and Matt names it Maureen. Yeah. And they discuss Maureen and whether or not Maureen is right in certain situations. Yes, exactly. Maureen is not right. Although Chase occasionally thinks that Maureen might be right. Anyway. Yeah.
Danikka: Chase gives in and listens to Maureen sometimes. But yeah, whenever Erin is having imposter syndrome days, I say, shut the fuck up, Barb. Like, Barb's going away.
Erin: Take a seat. Take a seat. Yeah, it happens. Happens to all of us. It happens to everyone.
Danikka: But yeah, so I started with that and then stuff just kind of got busy and I just felt like I wasn't immersed enough in that world because I've got, there's like, I think it's going to be quite a rigid magic system and it's got a lot of, like, because I like writing political fantasies, but the politics in that is like even more than Project November. There's a lot more like going back centuries and then there's misinterpretations of the core religion and things like that. So yeah, I need to, I think if I ever do like one of those, you know, I'm going to go away and shut myself away for a few weeks and write, then that will be what I'll be working on because I'll need to be like fully immersed, immersed in it for a while.
So it's just kind of sitting there while I work on Project November. And because I wanted, I think because I felt like I was being a bit too ambitious for the first thing that I'm writing since I stopped writing, which is then why I picked up Project November because it's a bit more of like a cosy kind of read, very like character-driven, you want to fall in love with the characters and see what happens with their relationships. And there is that element of politics because I can't not, but it's not as layered, I would say, a bit more like straightforward.
Erin: Yeah. And have you given yourself a deadline to finish or are you just going with the flow?
Danikka: I'm kind of going with the flow a bit because like, because, you know, the joy of writing was taken away from me for so long, I'm just kind of letting myself enjoy it. But I have been establishing a routine, which I'd say is probably important for getting your first draft finished. So I tend to write in the evenings.
We have a bit of a routine. I go and pick Rhi up from work. We cook dinner, watch something while we eat dinner, usually because neither of us are very much into like fictional shows at the moment.
So we usually find something on SBS or iView, which is the Australian kind of more informational channels. And like we watch a lot of Four Corners or something like that.
Erin: Yeah.
Danikka: That's like 45 minutes. And the other night we were like brain dead. So we watched Bluey. We watched two episodes of Bluey with dinner.
Erin: Bluey! Bluey, honestly, the new season of Bluey, every episode, it's just, it's just getting better and better. For anyone out there, if you have not seen one of two of my favourite episodes, my favourite character on Bluey is not Bluey.
It is Rusty, the Kelpie.
Danikka: Yes.
Erin: And Rusty has a new episode currently that's called Cricket, and it is outstanding. Like Rusty's episodes make me cry almost every time I watch them. They're so good.
Danikka: The Cricket episode was so good that they were talking about it on Morning Breakfast on the ABC the other day. Like they were like, go watch that episode. Like, yeah, it's so good.
Erin: Yeah. And they're only seven minutes long. So like it's in your lunch break.
Danikka: Look up ABC iView or wherever because I know Bluey is popular overseas as well.
Erin: I think it's on Disney in the States.
Danikka: Yeah. Even if you don't have kids, it's worth it.
Erin: Yeah.
Danikka: Yeah. I feel like it's almost more for the parents and the kids at this point.
Erin: Honestly.
Danikka: Yeah. Yeah. Anyway, the routine is we watch something with dinner and then Rhi will usually play PlayStation and then I'll sit and write. So if you follow me on Instagram, you know, we've got the pink couch and I sit on the corner under one lamp and Ree sits in the other corner under the other lamp and they play PlayStation and I write.
And so that's kind of like the routine. So I get about an hour and a half each night of writing, living that child-free life.
Erin: God damn it. I love my children. I love my children.
[Both laughing]
Erin: Yeah. Well, routine. So that is a good sort of, if we're looking for some tips from this episode — routine.
Routine is a good tip because I think one of the main things, one of the things that I try and do when I'm in drafting mode is I need to write every day because if I don't, I will, like you were saying, like you want to be kind of immersed in the world.
Danikka: Yeah.
Erin: If I don't write every day, I just kind of lose that momentum that I need to keep rolling. And the more I do it, like the more days in a row I get, I sort of can feel it sounds weird. You can kind of feel it bubbling away in the background and it's just kind of waiting for you to turn on the tap.
And then when you sit down or wherever you are, because I have less of a routine, so long as I'm doing it every day, when you turn on the tap, it starts.
Danikka: Yeah.
Erin: Yeah. So routine is good and writing every day. I understand that not everyone will be able to write every day and it's not.
Danikka: Yeah.
Erin: It's not ideal. This is actually something,
Danikka: Oh sorry, you probably couldn't hear me because it was going funny, but I was going to say this is actually something really good that came out of the writer's retreat that you said, because a couple of the girls who came to the last retreat were, you know, having trouble with the idea of writing every day and feeling like they had to be in the right space and all the rest of it. And this is actually why I love Google Docs and you draft in Google Docs.
Erin: Yeah.
Danikka: So it means you don't have to have your computer with you. You do type on your phone sometimes, right?
Erin: I do. The first, I think a lot of the wedding planners have probably written the first draft was written on my phone because I have two young kids. So it's a lot of, if I established too much of a routine and gave myself really sort of strong parameters around where I can write and when I can write, then I would just never get it done.
And so I remember seeing something ages ago about if you want to do something, you need to remove the barriers to do it. So for me, removing the barrier to do it was just like not having a routine. And if you want to write on your phone for 20 minutes on lunch break or when you're waiting in the car at pick up or whatever, then just do it then.
Like it doesn't need to be perfect, especially because if the ideas are in your head, if you don't get them down, they'll go, you know?
Danikka: Yeah, exactly. Yeah. They leave. That was actually something. Have you ever read Big Magic by the girl from If They Love, Elizabeth, what's her name?
Erin: I think I read some of it, but not all of it.
Danikka: I'm hopeless — it's like, it's a really sweet book. I like, I don't know if you really need to read it. There's a few like just really good anecdotes that come out of it.
And there's one where she talks about how she thinks of the magic of her ideas, where they only sit with you for a little while and unless you engage with them and actually like write them out, they'll leave and find someone else. So yeah, about a book that she was writing based around trying to get a road through the Amazon in South America. And there was like this whole time travel thing or time travel or like multi-generational story or something.
Anyway, she worked like had it in her brain for a couple of years, but just never panned out. And then she met a writer at a writers’ conference who had just written a book that was almost like exactly the same as what she was planning. Just like some like little differences.
And so that's what she refers to as the big magic of ideas and you know writing. Like they choose you, but if you don't choose them back and work with it, then they will jump at someone else who will write it. So depends how woo-woo you want to get with it.
But yeah, it could just be your brain will just let it go.
Erin: Yeah, so I'm an everyday writer when I'm in drafting and literally wherever I can do it. Occasionally when I'm at work, I'll be — I work in retail — and occasionally if an idea strikes me and there's no one in the store, I'll just be jotting down ideas on the back of register roll, you know, on the back of receipts.
So and then all of my co-workers laugh at me like, oh, she's got another idea because I'll just be standing there off to the side. Sorry, manager. So it's just, it's just removing those things that you're like, oh, well, I have to be at a computer or I have to be, you know, focused and with the right time of day and all that.
Like, no, I mean, if you, if you do need that for your creativity, then do that. But don't feel like that's, you have to have that to be able to get the words down.
Danikka: Yeah. Yeah. I think that because like, I know for me, like writing on the phone sounds terrible because I'm the worst type on my phone possible.
Like you've got some really shocking messages for me because I just cannot be bothered to edit my typing on my phone. But I think that's where your tip from the last episode works really well because you mostly just write out dialogue when you're initially drafting and then you can sit down and flesh it out later. And that removes the fear of the blank page when you do get a chance to sit down because you've got something there already.
Erin: Because there's something there. Exactly.
Danikka: So I love that. I think that's like really, really great. And a good tip for people who do have full time jobs or have kids and you know, all these other things that they're doing is just steal those little moments.
Erin: Just try. Yeah.
Danikka: Yeah.
Erin: Just think of them as like mini writing sprints.
Danikka: Yeah. And your first draft is a hundred percent not perfection.
Erin: No!
Danikka: Like I think a lot of people really think that it's supposed to be really good by the time they finish their first draft and it's not. It's just not. Yeah.
Erin: It's just not. It doesn't have to be bad. Like I don't, I also don't like in the same vein, I don't like the idea that all first drafts have to be shit. I don't agree with that.
Danikka: No. I think if they're shit then you don't want to keep working on them.
Like you want to feel like you've got a good idea and you still need to be …
Erin: Yeah, you still, I think you still need to be, and I think you definitely need to be proud of them. One, not for any other reason than you finished the first draft of a book.
Danikka: Yeah, exactly.
Erin: Aside from anything else, you wrote the whole damn thing.
Danikka: Yeah.
Erin: Yeah. You did it. You did the thing.
I'm also a chronological writer. I need to write in order.
Danikka: Yeah. I'm, I'm kind of a bit of both at the moment I'm finding with Project November. Like I, I kind of write each arc chronologically.
Erin: Yeah.
Danikka: But I don't necessarily write the book in order. So like for Rowena's chapters, for example, I might write a few more ahead in hers because like her, like she's probably what I would call the cozy character. Like she's had a hard upbringing.
So we're like kind of cushioning her a little bit at the beginning. And so there's lots of like fun, like by the fireside scenes and stuff like that, that I'm writing for her where you've got like other characters that maybe their arc isn't as clear. So they're still back at the start of their story.
Erin: Yeah.
Danikka: And I've got to, I've got to kind of catch up with them. So I write chronologically for each character, but that doesn't necessarily mean the book is being, I might be up to the middle in one character's story, but only at the start.
Erin: That makes sense.
Danikka: Yeah.
Erin: The problem with writing chronologically is that if you do get to a point where you're like, oh, I just don't know what I want to happen. Sometimes you just need to jump ahead. But then that jump ahead, I often find that if I do that and just write a scene that I want to write as a romance writer, when I'm getting frustrated with the camera, it does sometimes, I just want to write a scene when I kiss.
[Both laughing]
Erin: It happens.
Danikka: Or do more. Or do more.
Erin: As a starting point, as a jumping off point. Those scenes down the road will probably need the most work because then they may change. Like if things before that have sort of informed how they would actually be.
Yeah. But that's okay. I think the moral of the drafting story is there are as many ways to draft as there are people who are writers. And it doesn't matter what your process is, whatever helps you get words on the page is what you need to do.
Danikka: Yeah, exactly. Exactly. We just realised that we rambled talking about my weird drafts that I wrote when I was 13 and 15.
Erin: We're ramblers, it's fine.
Danikka: And bluey, yeah. So this will be part one of the drafting process episode. And then we're going to stop here.
And in the next episode, we'll be talking about once you finish that first draft, and getting to that revising for your second and third draft. So we'll see you guys in the next episode. Next time.
Erin: Bye.
Danikka: Thank you for listening. Brought to you by Authors Own Publishing, the home of indie publishing.
Don't forget to subscribe wherever you listen to your Podcasts and follow us on Instagram at Authors Own Publishing. Music brought to you by Mikel with more details in the show notes.
Episode Description
On this episode of the Snailed It Podcast Danikka and Erin discuss first drafts and their writing processes following an initial idea.
Brought to you by: Authors Own Publishing, Danikka Taylor, and Erin Thomson.
Danikka’s Details:
Website: www.authorsownpublishing.com
Instagram: @danikkataylor or @authorsownpublishing
Erin’s Details:
Website: www.erinthomsonauthor.com
Instagram: @authorerinthomson
Intro & Outro Music by Mikel & GameChops. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are solely those of the individuals involved and do not necessarily reflect the views of Authors Own Publishing. Thanks for Listening!
